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000071_icon-group-sender_Mon Oct 14 07:55:19 2002.msg
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Received: (from root@localhost)
by baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g9EEtEY07323
for icon-group-addresses; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:55:14 -0700 (MST)
Message-Id: <200210141455.g9EEtEY07323@baskerville.CS.Arizona.EDU>
From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
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Subject: Re: Icon Wish List
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:01:24 -0400
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In <aoadds$kjq8u$1@ID-79573.news.dfncis.de>, on 10/13/2002
at 12:46 AM, "Andrew Hamm" <ahamm@mail.com> said:
>I don't think you've understood what I've said.
Au contraire; you have confirmed that I understood what I've said and
that you didn't understand what I said. Typing can be static or
dynamic. Icon uses dynamic typing. I never said that the association
between a variable and a class should be static. I said "The class is
the type.". If the type in Icon is dynamic then clearly you would
expect the association of a variable to a type in a hypothetical OO
Icon to also be dynamic.
>and to me, it follows that class members should not be declared with
>type either.
Why?
>I said "overloaded" not "overridden".
So did I.
>Since Icon supports untyped arguments,
It doesn't. It supports arguments whose type is only known at
execution time.
>it follows
No.
>Further, any method which cared to handle different args differently
Irrelevant; I'm talking about two different methods, with the choice
being determined at run-time based on the classes of the parameters.
That sort of thing is a basic part of the OO paradigm.
>Well, no it doesn't. You need to consider how it might be
>implemented
Yes it does. I would expect some sort of hash table, which is not
exactly rocket science.
>now, how can the compiler determine that arg.M is legal?
It probably can't. The run-time environment will determine it.
>The only way to solve this is with a
>runtime check which cross-references the current dynamic type with
>the visibility of M in relation to the context using it.
So what else is new?
>Did you say "Bletch!" ?
No, you did. I don't agree. There are all sorts of things that can
only be checked at run time.
>I want my scripts to complete today, thank-you very much.
And I want my scripts to complete correctly, even if they take a
microsecond longer.
>I am aiming more for compile-type checking.
Which is a more major change than making Icon OO.
>I spit on runtime checking
>Icon has never demanded specific declarations,
Now you've got me really confused. Which is the real Andrew; the one
that wants to do the checking at compile time or the one that notices
that Icon does a lot of things at run time?
>Ultimately, you have to remember that Icon is very dynamically
>typed,
I remember that, but you seem to be unhappy with it.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Atid/2, Team OS/2, Team PL/I
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